Verific Design Automation is an electronic design automation (EDA) developer of front-end software and a member of the Electronic System Design (ESD) Alliance. Verific is also viewed as a valued supplier to many EDA, field-programmable gate array (FPGA) and semiconductor companies –– some still around, some acquired by larger EDA companies, and some long gone –– for the past 25 years. With this backdrop, Bob Smith, executive director of the ESD Alliance, talks with Rob Dekker, Verific’s founder, president, and CTO, and Michiel Ligthart, its COO, about the evolution of the company and the industry over the last 25 years, the emerging EDA products space and what’s to come. Smith: This is the 25th anniversary of the founding of Verific. How did it get started? Dekker: The company I worked for before I started Verific was Exemplar Logic (now Siemens EDA), founded by Ewald Detjens in the 1990s. Exemplar started off making an RTL-to-Xilinx FPGAs path using the VHDL hardware description language (HDL) as the entry language. I worked on the VHDL language parser. As I was doing that work, I looked at the VHDL language reference manual and made sure that all the code complied with the rules set by the IEEE standards committee. I wondered why I was doing it for just one company, because it was and still is an IEEE standard language. Every tool vendor that wants to support VHDL would have someone like me looking at the language reference manual and building a language front-end that complies with all the rules in the standard. As I gained experience and finally left Exemplar, I already knew how to make a language front-end and started building a good one for the Verilog HDL. The initial idea was not to sell it to different companies but to build an equivalence checker formal verification tool that could be installed on every designer’s desktop, where they could check their designs at various stages in the design flow. I needed funding, and started selling the language front-end thinking that no one should have to rewrite a language front-end because it's already a standard. That's when the idea came to start Verific. I wanted to build a standard language front-end, with the possibility of creating a formal tool based on that front-end. The language front-end was popular among various EDA tool vendors and startup companies. Formal tools, synthesis tools, simulators or virtual prototyping tools, emulators, and so on all need a language front-end. I was starting to license the front-end and got so busy that I asked my good friend Michiel to run the business so I could focus on the technical side. After that, we started to grow, acquired an exceptional team in India run by my friend Abhijit Chakrabarty, and hired Rick Carlson as VP of sales. It quickly became a real company, and we started to license the language front-ends to the entire EDA industry. One company wanted to license our language front-end to build an equivalence checker. At that point, we had to decide whether to stay in the language front-end business or to make an equivalence checker and compete with our customers. We decided that competing was not a good idea and chose to focus on language front-end for the EDA industry. We have been doing this ever since for most EDA tools, from startup companies, all the way to large semiconductor companies. Their tools have been built with a language front-end developed at Verific, and we are proud of that. Smith: What have you seen change since you started? Have you seen any big changes that surprised you as the industry has evolved? Dekker: I wouldn't say big changes overall, but I've been impressed by the amount of innovation in the EDA industry. The industry is dynamic, with new tool vendors coming up and good ideas being explored. We are in a wonderful industry that is vibrant with innovation and talented people. This is what impressed me about the industry initially, and it still does. At Verific, we want to be an incubator for new innovations to flourish in an EDA industry dominated by a small number of large players. Ligthart: One change that had a significant impact on Verific specifically is the introduction of SystemVerilog. When Rob started out, there was Verilog 95 and VHDL. Verilog 95 was a relatively simple language. VHDL was complicated. We saw that early customers often wrote their own Verilog parser and came to Rob for the VHDL parser. In 2005, the IEEE 1800, also known as SystemVerilog, was introduced. That was a game changer, because suddenly, adopting SystemVerilog in the Verilog customer base required a new front-end that was as difficult to create as writing VHDL parsers. That was an inflection point for the company, and it started to grow. Before then, it was a nice company. After 2005, it became a growth company. Nowadays, we equally support SystemVerilog and VHDL. They're both complicated languages. People for the past 20 years have proclaimed the death of VHDL. It did not happen and will not happen. The two languages go hand in hand in different parts of the world. Most EDA companies support both because their end users require both. Smith: Verific coined the term “bespoke EDA.” How do you define it? Ligthart: For that, we need a bit of history. Fifty years ago, semiconductor companies started to write their own software tools to design their semiconductors. Those days, it was still called CAD, computer-aided design. Over time, we saw the introduction of EDA companies that tackled singular problems like simulation, place and route, or logic synthesis, and they started replacing in-house developed tools. In the past seven years, many of the larger semiconductor companies and system companies have started to develop in-house EDA tools again. Of course, they still license most of their design tools from EDA companies, but for certain design aspects, they develop their own design flow. They write their own internal EDA tools that are specific to that company, and they don’t go outside of that company. That's what we call “bespoke EDA.” Smith: These chip companies can afford to do this? Ligthart: Yes, because they are large enough and have the people to do it. They license their SystemVerilog and VHDL front-ends from us, so they do not have to invest five years of development for that piece of their flow. They take our parsers and elaborators and build something of their own — bespoke for their semiconductor design flow. Smith: It makes me think of Google, Meta. Ligthart: Let me put it this way. Of the magnificent seven technology stocks, six have a Verific license. Smith: How do you see AI changing EDA design tools? How will AI impact you? Dekker: This question about AI is coming up quite a bit, and I have a more conservative opinion. I don't know if AI is going to change EDA tools by themselves. EDA tools are highly optimized to do a particular task, it would be difficult for AI to beat that. If it did, it would surprise me. Outside of tools, like the design exploration phase for example, I think AI might make a humongous difference. AI could make it much quicker to explore different design alternatives. Right now, several AI-based companies are engaging with Verific, and they provide the design environment to do optimizations. AI could also help engineers improve their work. This would be more at the micro level, where individual engineers use ChatGPT type of engines and language models to enhance their programming styles, algorithms, and implementations. At the micro level, I think AI has an impact. At the macro level outside of the tools, I think AI will also have an impact. I doubt AI will change anything with the tools themselves. Ligthart: I'm pretty much in line with everything Rob said. At the Design Automation Conference (DAC), we showcased our relationship with four EDA startups that are applying or are in the process of applying artificial intelligence to their design objectives. As Rob said, the first step is getting a Verific license so that they have SystemVerilog already in place. Then, they apply AI-based algorithms to tackle certain aspects of the semiconductor design cycle. In terms of how successful they are, that's up to them to prove, but we have a front-row seat to watch their progression and success. Smith: What trends in the industry are you seeing? Dekker: Niels Bohr, a renowned physicist of the 20th century, once said, "prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Our EDA industry is vibrant, and it’s hard to see where it's going. I think that the EDA industry is here to stay. EDA companies are becoming more and more popular in the stock market. This industry is 40 years old, but it’s still dynamic and still full of innovation. It's extremely important that we keep this industry open, that we share ideas with each other, and that we provide solutions for the increasing complexity of chip and system designs, especially as AI gains prominence. The industry will change, and as it changes, the requirements for EDA tools will also need to be adjusted and there's a range of directions that our industry can go in. Verific is here to support that. About Rob Dekker Rob Dekker is president, founder, CTO and principal developer of Verific’s HDL source code software. Prior to founding Verific, Dekker was a software developer, manager, and director at Exemplar Logic, where he was the architect and a primary developer of Leonardo. Dekker started his career with Philips Research in the Netherlands, where he worked on the testability of VLSI circuits. He graduated from Delft University of Technology, the Netherlands, with a Master of Science degree in electrical engineering. About Michiel LigthartMichiel Ligthart is Verific’s COO and has an extensive background in engineering, product marketing, and general management. Prior to Verific, Ligthart was vice president and general manager of west coast operations for Theseus Logic, a startup in asynchronous logic. Previously, he spent eight years with Exemplar Logic in engineering and marketing roles. Ligthart started his career with Philips Research Labs and was a visiting scholar at the Center for Integrated Systems at Stanford University. He has a Master of Science degree in electrical engineering from Delft University of Technology, the Netherlands. Robert (Bob) Smith is executive director of the ESD Alliance, a SEMI Technology Community.